Join Ryan Carr (Trainer and Mentor) and Calvin Hexter (Owner of Calvin Realty) as they break down strategies, real-life insights, and proven systems to help you succeed in infill development. Whether you’re just starting out or looking to scale your real estate game, this conversation dives into the key factors that drive profit, reduce risk, and create long-term value in urban redevelopment.
- Infill project planning
- Deal structuring tips
- Investor mindset shifts
- Lessons from the trenches
Calvin: I’m here with Ryan Carr, and if you’re not familiar with Ryan, Ryan is a professional investor, a real estate coach, and you do a ton with Trust Your Talent, which are really good friends of mine. And you recently, I don’t know how recent, but you recently went from working a job to full-time investor, and essentially being able to retire your main career. Is that right?
Ryan: That’s right, yeah. It’s been a little bit now, actually. It was the end of 2022. And I wanted to always find the silver lining, and it was a bit of a slap upside the head from life, quite frankly, that really gave me that final push.
I had a stress-induced heart attack at 38.
Calvin: No kidding!
Ryan: I may still have been in that career, who knows, had that not happened. But it was, frankly, again, that slap. And I said to myself, no amount of money is worth not being around permanently for your wife and your kids. So we made the decision to double down and take the business full-time, and it’s been the best decision we’ve ever made.
Calvin: Amazing. And you know, it’s a courageous decision, right? It’s not easy. It’s very hard. It’s this leap of faith in yourself and your team around you to really get there. And was there, you know, is there any tips, anybody that might be relating to you right now that’s maybe slowly dying from their day-to-day that need a change? What’s one thing that you could give to them?
Ryan: You know, I think realistically, I’ve heard it said, I love the saying, real estate is a “we business, not a me business”. And so if you really want to start scaling, you’ve got to have a ton of conversations to find the right people.
You know, I’m not a realtor, I’m not a lawyer, I’m not an accountant, I’m not a property manager. Those are crucial people on your team. You’ve got to find them, put them in place. You know, they say, if you want to go fast, go alone. If you want to go far, go together. And you know, finding those right people, putting them on your team, crucial. But honestly, I know it sounds so cliche, but believe in yourself. You know, if you’ve had any ounce of success in your career, think about how when you’re driving your own destiny, where that’s going to go.
And that was a huge realization for me. It was a heavy set of golden handcuffs to let go of. I was making 300K plus a year. And so I obviously having that safety net, especially the kids was tough to let go of. But when I left at the end of 2022, from December 2022 to March of 2024, so just over a year, we doubled the business because you get to fully devote your energy to your own efforts. And you know, the fire was just lit.
Calvin: Fantastic. I love it. And you’re seeing some great success. And now it’s not always about the doors, but I think you’re 300 plus doors strong, which is great as well. And I’m excited to chat about infill. But before we chat about that, we got to talk about the Superman sticker on your chest there.
Ryan: I left it there purposely. Yeah. Unfortunately, my little guy, little under the weather, turns out he has pneumonia.
So he had a doctor’s visit this morning. He’s a huge fan of Spider-Man. So he got a Spider-Man sticker, but he made sure he asked the doctor, he’s like, can I get a Superman sticker for my favorite daddy? Because he’s Superman to me. So
Calvin: that’s incredible. And in light of the new Superman movie being released today, I mean, that’s perfectly fitting, too. So yeah.
Calvin: Infill. So let’s talk about some of the, you know, you’ve worked with a lot of investors before, not only from I mean, mainly from a coaching JV perspective, but you’re also investing as well. What’s what do you think is one thing that a lot of investors do wrong when it comes to infill? And it’s something that we were talking about just briefly right over, you know, before we went on the call here. What’s something that you noticed that they do wrong? And what’s one of the biggest changes that you’d recommend to most investors?
Ryan: You know, I think what is the typical beginning of any investor’s journey is, you know, they’re just so excited to get started. So they search and search for an opportunity. They’re turning over the rocks, they get a fish on the hook, but then they scramble like heck to raise the funds. And I think you should sign – if you really want to take your business seriously – you should simultaneously be hunting for opportunities and capital. And frankly, that’s what I really love about infills as a strategy, because, you know, certainly a lot of opportunity with value add multis, which, you know, is another part of our portfolio, but every deal is unique in that world.
Whereas within fills, it can become pretty cookie cutter. Once you get your team in place, you know, your rough build costs, especially if you’re working with a fixed price contract builder, which I would highly recommend, it’s going to help you on the financing side as well. So you’ve got your, your build costs locked in, you create your buy box for your lots and you stick to it. Don’t compromise because that’s when you’ll get bit. So, you know, your relative lot costs, you know, your build costs. So that’s basically your project. And then you start reverse engineering things. Okay. These are our costs in.
How do we get that out? Ideally, the perfect burr is obviously most people’s goal. If you’ve got to leave a little bit, I guess that’s okay. Yeah. But you start having those enrolling conversations and we can delve into that in a minute, I suppose. But yeah, to sum it up, I would say you got to be hunting for both simultaneously because these grades, a lot of these grades developed as a result of having to scramble to find capital after that deal was on the hook. You know, you really should have them ready to be married up, you know, and, and keep notes.
Some people use a CRM if they really want to be dialed in. Honestly, when you’re starting a simple spreadsheet might do if you’re trying to keep your costs low and not subscribing to a CRM, but hey, who was it? Date of the conversation. So, you know, when you might want to have follow-up touch points, how much capital might they have?
What form is it in? How liquid is it? Cash? Is it TFSA? RRSP? Lines of credit? And what sort of timeline are they open to?
Because infills may not be for every potential partner. Some people might say, yeah, you know what? I want to rinse this money in six to 12 months. Okay. Well, then maybe a quicker flip, for example, might be a better strategy to pair up with them on. If they’re okay with, say, an 18 to 24 month timeline, more akin to something like an infill, great.
Now you’ve got a marriage.
Calvin: Yeah, I think that’s fantastic. And two things I want to talk about with you today is not only the recent discussion with the City of Edmonton on interior lots, because I know that’s a hot topic, especially over the last couple weeks here, which we will touch on today, everybody. But secondly, let’s say we’re going to start from scratch. So say that whether we’re an existing investor looking at getting into infill, or we have been and we haven’t really found our footing. Let’s go through what that process looks like. So step one, what’s the first thing that you would do?
Ryan: So again, I mean, you mentioned interior lots, and frankly, that’s where we have managed to carve out some success. You know, corner lots are great. They’re sort of quote unquote the home run, but everybody’s looking for that home run. So you got more competition, costs are driven up, all of that. So the interior lots is actually quite a nice little niche. Now to quickly go to that city hearing, I think a lot of investors were on the edge of their seat because I know for us, for example, we have a lot in Queen Mary Park. Our builder partner, some might know Frank and Holmes in Edmonton, they pushed and pushed and pushed to get us our permits at the 11th hour, literally the Friday before the Monday hearing.
So we breathed a sigh of relief, regardless of what the outcome was. However, that public hearing, they did rule against decreasing the maximum density. So what was originally tabled was going from eight units to six units maximum density. And that was driven, as you probably know, it’s a municipal election year. And so the government is paying a lot more attention to what the constituents are saying. And you know, a lot of NIMBYism in these nicer neighborhoods.
Now, sorry, to rewind, NIMBY, not in my backyard. So there’s a lot of these individuals in nicer neighborhoods, which is ultimately where we are targeting because that’s where people want to live. But you’ve got to deal with those complaints and that opposition. And they were concerned about all the street parking and the added congestion that was going to happen because of result of all of these eight plexes turning up on interior lots. Now we’re doing our part to address that because we are a very strict buy box. We make sure we have proper lot dimensions for not only our living structure, but at least a four bay garage. So our upper units have a garage. They’re off the street. Our basement units, okay, so at worst there’s four cars on the street. Let’s be honest, most basement suites, some of them might not even have a car. You know, so with the LRT constantly under construction and growing, that’s gonna be great to help people throughout the city. What did happen though, the density didn’t drop, thank goodness, but they’ve changed the setbacks, the side setbacks. So the side setbacks went from 1.2 meters to 1.92 meters. So what that may mean, you know, if you had the same say 50 by 150 lot, right now, unless your builder can work with their architect to perhaps cantilever maybe the upper floor to give a little more width up top, you’ll probably lose about a foot of width in each of your bedrooms, which depending on how tight your plans were already could really change things, right?
So that’s something to look at. And then the other change, the main structure, the living structure cannot cover more. So the depth of the structure cannot cover more than 50% of the depth of the lot. So those were the two major changes to kind of keep an eye on. So as you’re working with a potential builder partner, make sure you’re looking at those drawings critically and understand, okay, so for example, our one build, we’re about 36 feet in depth, which means, okay, we need to have at least 72 plus feet, but then again, we want that garage. So now we need room for that garage within the maximum lot coverage, proper clearance between them. You know, you’ve gotta do that math, which is why you gotta have the right team.
Calvin: Yeah. And I think making it functional for the end user as well, because I mean, reducing a foot off, you know, bedroom space for many that are listening might be like, well, that’s not really a lot, but if the space is already being challenged to even put a queen bed in, you know, tenants do consider that, right?
And if the end user has a hard time or will not be willing to occupy that space because the functionality of it doesn’t make any sense, it is going to limit your ability to be profitable, right? And you might be sitting vacant for longer. So I think it’s important more than ever to look at the plans and even draw it out and see like, does this feel too tight? You know, like actually map it out with tape, do what you need to be able to actually walk through it because a lot of these times, right? Like these architectural drawings get submitted and then you go and you know, you wait whatever, five months and then you can actually walk in the structure and see what it feels like to be in there. But sometimes at that point it’s too late. So doing your due diligence more than ever, especially with these new adjustments that we have to, you know, abide by.
And I know there’s a lot of happy investors out there that they didn’t reduce the density on those inside lots. But now again, it’s just that, you know, it’s that give and take relationship. And I think as long as we have, you know, in the grand scheme of things, there’s a ton of builders that popped up. I think there’s over 400 builders in the Edmonton area now. I think over a year and a half ago, there was maybe like 330. There’s a lot of builders that popped up just due to the profitability. And I do wanna talk about, you know, what you can expect for profit if you are looking at building like a typical six, seven or eight plex.
Obviously depending on how you’re doing it, you’re gonna have your systems, but I do wanna run through those numbers. You know, it’s a lot of people saw profit in it. And so friends talk, family members talk and you know, builder A that’s been doing it for five years goes to a barbecue, talks to a friend and says, hey, you know you could make, you know, 120K, you know, off this build in the course of a 10 month period. And then all of a sudden, you know, they’re a builder and then the next person’s a builder. And I think that’s kind of where we got in hot water too, is that the city of Edmonton wants to work with like good quality ethical builders. What they’re trying to get away from is working with like quote unquote bad builders or those that don’t really take that consideration. And I do think some people will be taken out, right?
I think that there are gonna be some builders that are gonna be removed. And I think I’m looking forward to it. I think we’re gonna see some good changes anyways.
Ryan: Yeah, and I think, you know, we’ve seen that even on the other end in terms of investors, you know, post pandemic, if you will. I mean, let’s be honest, what, 2018 to say 2021, a monkey probably could have made money in the market. Let’s, you know, let’s be honest. But now it takes a lot more creativity. It takes a lot more planning to actually be profitable in today’s climate. You know, bank underwriting has changed. CMHC policies have changed. Municipal standards, like we just talked about, you’ve gotta be so agile.
Calvin: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And so let’s talk about the process of infill. So, you know, it starts with the lot and sometimes there’s a house in the lot. Sometimes there’s not a house in the lot. When it comes to financing a project. If we’re looking at getting into infill, what is that, how does that make a difference if the house, if there is a house, if it’s livable versus just a vacant lot for an investor?
Ryan: Yeah, that’s going to be different for a lot of different investors depending on their capital stack or depending on whether they have partners or equity lined up.
If there’s a viable house on the lot and you can rent that in the meantime while you’re pursuing your permits, fantastic. You know, that’s probably the best case scenario, especially if it’s maybe something that’s already suited. Oh, spectacular. Now you’ve got two suites there that you can rent. Letting them know, of course, what the pending, you know, plans are. That’s one thing that has always been a big part of our success. We operate transparency, candor and honesty always with everybody involved, including your tenants.
Calvin: It feels better. You can sleep better at night, right?
Ryan: And it contributes to that longevity, right? You’re not that sleazy car salesman type that makes the quick win, but then, you know, it’s eventually going to catch up to you. So yeah, that would be the ideal scenario anyway, something you can rent already while you make your application for permits. Thus far in our journey, everything that we’ve secured has been vacant. Would have been viable to potentially tenant, but we’ve taken a different approach, probably because of where we are in our journey.
And again, everybody’s journey is different. So we’ve come in all cash, quick close on our lots and our house. And frankly, I mean, gives you a bit of an opportunity to be a bit of a bully, right? You can come in all cash, two weeks, quick close. Do you really need a lot of conditions? Not really. If you’re tearing it down, right, you got it.
Asbestos inspection and mitigation is inevitable. So just budget for that properly. We typically, again, being conservative, we budget on the high end. We’re looking at about twenty five, thirty K that we budget in. Our latest one came in at seventy three hundred bucks.
So, hey, win? But again, budget it, you know, decrease your rents, deflate your rents in your in your pro forma, increase your expenses, inflate your cap rates so that you can always have lots of wiggle room to deliver for you and your investors, in my opinion. So that’s one route. All cash, quick close to acquire another option.
It could be a low leverage mortgage. You know, we’ve heard of players like Calvert, I guess, is a pretty popular one. You know, 50 to 60 percent on your initial acquisition. So helps to decrease the amount of money you need to bring in. Or, of course, there’s always that traditional financing model, which can be helped if you have a tenable property. Again, though, transparency with that lender, because if you’re going to tear the house down, they got to know about that. You know, because if you were to try to tear that down and not inform them, the second they find out they’re calling that loan, as you would know, because there’s no collateral left.
So and you could be blackballed in the future, which would be a very bad thing. So multiple different approaches. The only thing to keep in mind is every time you have a financing component, it’s another set of fees. It’s a, you know, it’s a potential lender fee.
It’s a broker fee. It’s your legal fees. And so if you have an initial loan to acquire the property, then you have a construction loan to construct. Then you have your ultimate exit, say, to CMHC. You’ve got three sets of fees in there, which can start eating away at your profitability. So that is one of the biggest reasons why we decided to try to wait a little bit before delving into our first project back in back last year in Edmonton anyway. And and make an all cash quick close type acquisition because it removes one layer and gives you more agility, quite frankly.
Calvin: Absolutely. So you purchase inside lots. You like inside lots because there’s less competition. The, you know, you know, corner lots can be a little bit inflated just due to the demand around them as well, which can obviously reduce your profitability if you’re paying that much more up front. What would you say is a good price for a good inside lot in like a C area like a Queen Mary Park? What do you what’s a good price that people typically want to look for?
Ryan: So a C area. Yeah, I mean, I would say top end of your budget. You’re probably going to want to settle out at at no more than 450, in my opinion.
You know, if you can secure under that, like our last our last one in Queen Mary Park, we came in at like 420, four or five. You know, if you can come in closer to four or eight under four, spectacular. So I would say you’re probably 375 for a really good buy to 450 in somewhere like Queen Mary Park would probably be pretty good. Would you agree?
Calvin: Yep. Yep. I would totally agree. And again, every community and for everybody that’s listening, like we will reverse engineer it. It’s like we want to before purchasing a lot. I know that’s one thing you do as well, Ryan, is look at comparable infills if there is anything. And thank God now more than ever, there’s actually a lot more comps now than there was like, say, two years ago. When we were looking at comps for eight units in some of these communities that never really, you know, embraced infill or just never had that turnover of properties, you had to be able to substitute with other communities to be able to kind of get your end price and then talk to some appraisers and work your way backwards that way. Right now, it’s the easiest to find comps for communities because there’s just such a high volume of them now available, which is which is nice. So let’s go through the numbers of 450 or less for the lot.
And then we’re going to say it has a house on it. So we’re going to say most people can’t pay cash. They’re going to have to mortgage the house. They’re going to let the lender know that, hey, we are going to demolish it because obviously the collateral will change. And again, for everybody that’s watching, like when the bank’s loaning you money, if something happens and you go belly up, knock on wood, that’s not going to happen. They need to be able to sell that asset and not lose at the end of it. Right. They’re loaning it to you at this rate.
And that rate is dependent on your risk level or how they perceive you as a risk. And if you take the structure down that is providing 25 percent of the value of what that price is that they’re loaning you, you remove that. I mean, that makes a difference, right, depending on the condition of that home and how they see that structure being of value. So make sure that you communicate on that because the last thing you want them to do is to call the loan due. That would just be that wouldn’t be fun. So we have a house on the lot. We’re going to say that the house is, you know, the house is not tenanted right now. We’ll say that the condition is kind of poor. And again, if you’re looking at, you know, demolishing it, you know, as an investor, biggest tip is if you hold on to it for the long term, because maybe you’re not ready to build in 2025 and you want to build in 2026, maybe pay a little bit more to get a house that is tenatable or, you know, where you can put a tenant in the main floor basement, because it really helps with subsidizing your expenses over the long term. And you might even cash flow a few bucks every single month too, that might be your coffee money or whatever you want to use it. But say that when you’re ready to demolish it, so what’s the next steps? You have the lot, we’re ready to demolish it, what’s the typical cost for demolishing a home in your experience? Yeah, I mean, we found, you know, so there’s a few things there, obviously, you’ve got to line your permits up before you can even tear it down, right, you can’t just go and bring in the bulldozers and knock it down, you’d get yourself in a wee bit of hot water with the city.
Calvin: Oh, big time. Yeah, so don’t just do it, don’t just get your friend’s Bobcat and just go to town.
Ryan: So you’ve, you know, you’ve got to make your application. So traditionally, we try to keep the velocity going, you know, so even during the closing process, which traditionally in our model, again, with the all cash is pretty quick, but still, we’ll submit right away, we’ll go to our builder, and we’ll say, hey, got the next lot under contract. It’s a 50 by 150 interior lot, we know we can put the eight plex on it. Let’s get the plan submitted. You know, the only thing you’re really doing there is, you know, that any builder is going to have their base plan, depending on your neighborhood.
So a good example, our first one was in Westmount. So we put a little couple little extras in there, we put a 42 inch fireplace feature wall, we did some extended upper cabinets in our upper kitchen, just some stuff to play into that slightly nicer neighborhood, Queen Mary Park, we drew some of that stuff out, we pulled it out, you know, making smart decisions. So you finalize your costs, get your plan submitted to the city. Now what’s going to happen before you get your demolition permit, you have to have what’s called an asbestos clearance letter. So you’ve got to have someone come in to do an asbestos inspection, and see what might be in the house. And you know, some of us have been able to identify what might be problem areas, I’m sure you consult with your clients all the time on that, you know, floor tile from the 60s and 70s, sometimes ceiling tile, pipe raft, drywall, sometimes even the exterior stucco on the houses. So again, we always ensure that we budget for worst case.
So on those crannies, little bungalows that you see in those neighborhoods, you know, the 900 to 1100 square foot, having the conversations we had, we discovered 25 to 30k is probably the absolute worst case. So that’s what we budget. And if it comes in less spectacular, you know, like I said, our last one coming up in Queen Mary Park, 7300 bucks, we just got the quote the other day, amazing, wonderful. So you’re going to have your contract, you’re going to have someone first go and do the inspection, they’ll give you the report, that report you would then take to a mitigation contractor, that contractor is going to go in, take care of all of the identified issues, and for a couple of days thereafter, they have to do some air quality testing to ensure it’s gone. Once you clear, you got your clearance letter. So that would go in with your architectural drawings for your permits. Once you do that, honestly, to stabilize your cost base, we’re immediately submitting to ATCO in Edmonton there to have the gas meter removed. Why pay for utilities if you’re getting the house ready for demolition? Once the mitigation is done, well, they’re in there, of course, they’re going to need electricity and water. So you keep those on. But once that’s done too, get rid of those. Why pay for it? You know, then you’re starting to slowly knock off your operating costs. The only thing you really have left at that point is your property taxes and or a mortgage pity payment if you’ve obviously leveraged on the initial acquisition.
Calvin: Yeah. What’s the cost that you typically allocate for permits and plans?
Ryan: We’ve been seeing things kind of come out in between $25,000 to $30,000. You know, traditionally, I think to kind of really hone in on it, we’ve been right in around $26,000, $27,000 for all our permits for demolition, construction and development permits. Okay.
Calvin: And demolition? What’s the demolition cost that you’re seeing right now? Are you getting around like $13,000, $14,000, $15,000? Or what are you seeing?
Ryan: Yeah, roughly. I would say, you know, on the high end, I think we had one kind of run up to about $22,000. But yeah, if we’re in that sort of, you know, $17,000 to $22,000 range, it would probably be pretty accurate.
Calvin: Okay. And for those of you that are demolishing right around Halloween, maybe turn it into a haunted house, like a safe haunted house, charge $20 admission per person, throw a couple creepy friends in there to spook people and that might help pay for some of the upfront costs. Okay, sounds good. Sounds great.
So then you have the permits plans, it’s going to get demolished, things are going good. What is the typical cost for the build? What’s a typical build cost that you would see on like a very traditional, we’ll say eight unit building with a four car garage? What are you seeing most of them coming at?
Ryan: Yeah, so I mean, a base plan with our builder anyway, you know, you’re looking in the high 1.675, 1.7 for your base build cost. Now that’s a fixed price contract. So you know, when you look at approaches, a couple of different ways, you know, you can either go with a fixed price contract, which often admittedly, you may be potentially paying a little bit more versus a cost plus, however, you’re eliminating variability.
And for us, when our brand and our reputation is everything with our investors, we want to eliminate variability as much as possible so that we can control the process. So we see a ton of value in a fixed price builder. So base costs, yes, let’s say right around 1.7. So now with your lot, you’re right around 2.15 total project costs plus some legal and other soft costs. So let’s say two, two, two, two and a quarter for your total project costs. You know, if you decide to add some extras, you know, you might be able, you might choose to do that. One thing we’ve always done is basement bump outs, you know, just to increase the size of our basement suites, take them from a one bed to a two bedroom, you know, you’re at about $150 a square foot on that build out.
But frankly, you know, if we reverse engineer those numbers, you know, you look at $150, 150 times 120 square feet, so an $18,000 investment per suite, you go from a one bedroom, which you would say probably what, say $1,200 to $1,300 a month in reasonable neighborhoods to a two bedroom where you’re now say $1,500, you know, so $300 a month times 12, you’re $3,600 a year at what we’ve seen is about a five cap rate, a five cap for new builds. Well, now you’ve just spent $18,000 and make $72,000 on your valuation.
I think a 400% return is pretty reasonable. And that’s what I like about this strategy is you can literally drive your decisions on numbers.
Calvin: Yeah. And two other things that a lot of people will miss too is like, you know, think about the evolution of a tenant. A lot of times they’re going to start out, they might be single, they might have gone through a divorce, and then the evolution is that they’re going to get adopted. They’re going to get a partner, and they’re going to need more space. So are they going to outgrow your basement suite to the point where you lose that tenant and now you have that turnover?
Because turnover is expensive, not only when it comes to the maintenance side of things, but also just the acquisition of the new tenant and your time. And your ability to tenant in, if you’re in an area like a C area or a D area, what’s making your unit stand out from the rest? Because I can tell you 95% of infills out there have single bedroom basement suites. And if we do see a contraction in the rental market, what’s making you stand out and are you renting before your neighbor? Because you want to, and you want the best quality of the tenants as well. So I think there’s so many more layers to it besides like the return on investment that we just went through as well. Ryan, we’re packing so much value here, and we got to shut it off because I got to go.
We have another Facebook Live that we’re jumping into. Ryan, we’re going to see you at REIcon this year. We’re excited to have you at REIcon. It’s going to be massive.
It is so big. We have the JW Marriott. The main focus this year is deals. We’re going to be built to, you’re going to be seeing people on stage analyzing deals. You’re going to be talking about multifamily. People can have the discussion with you a little bit more about infill, show you their projects. They might want to dive into the projects that you’re working on.
The best thing I love about you is how transparent, honest, and ethical that you are. And you’ve always been like that from day one when I first met you to today as the Superman dad. I absolutely love what you’re doing, and I think it’s amazing on how much you’re making an impact in the real estate community.
Ryan: I appreciate the kind words. I’m always happy to chat. Really quick, one thing that I can bring as a bit of a unique perspective, my previous life that I left behind after the stress and heart attack, I was actually in high performance construction. So, Energy Star lead, net zero, in and out of both track built houses as well as multimillion dollar custom homes.
So, you mentioned flow earlier. Proper flow, making the unit attractive to tenants, efficiencies to play into MLI select. Happy to share any of that stuff.
Calvin: We have so much more value. We might even have to do another Facebook Live. I feel like there’s so many things that we’ve left on the table. We haven’t even talked about profitability and the refinance process. We might have to do a part two. I think if we get enough comments saying part two, we’ll do it. Sound good? Is that fair?
Ryan: Absolutely.
Calvin: We’ll make it happen? Okay. Other than that, we’ll see you soon, my friend. I hope you have a great day. And thanks everybody for joining today.
